Season 4, Episode 2: The Power of Independence in the Kitchen

Conner (00:07):
Welcome to Kiddos in the Kitchen, a podcast hosted by my mom.

Brent Jackson (00:17):
As I started learning more growing up, I was able to tell that something my mom made was lacking or missing salt or some kind of herb. Add that to it or ask me like, "Taste this and tell me what's in there." And I'll be able to tell what was in a sauce or a dip.

Stephanie (00:35):
That's Brent Jackson. Born in Ohio, Brent now lives in Tempe, Arizona, where he works as a library technician for a local community college. When he was 6 six years old, he was diagnosed with autism. Brent has a culinary degree, and while he didn't pursue a cooking career, he finds that cooking is a part of his independence as an adult. His story, which includes navigating his autism and his relationship with cooking, is one I'm excited to be able to tell. Welcome to Kiddos in the Kitchen, a podcast about helping busy adults find the inspiration and information they need to teach the kids in their lives how to cook. I'm your host, Stephanie Conner, and today we're talking about how cooking connects with independent living.

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Brent Jackson (02:08):

So when I was in preschool, actually, the teacher would mention to my parents that I was very antisocial. I enjoyed it, but I just wanted to be left alone really. And I guess it was a point also where kids would hand me their birthday invitations and I would tell them, "No, thank you. I'm not interested," and hand it back to them. I didn't like being in circles of people. I lacked social skills. And that's when they're like, "You might want to go get him checked out, see what's going on." This was 1988; there was no autism diagnosis.

Stephanie (02:45):

At one time, clinicians used the term pervasive developmental disorder or PDD. Then we saw the diagnosis of autism. Today, the health community recognizes that autism is a spectrum disorder. There are some common characteristics of autism spectrum disorder, such as social impairments, issues with communicating and restricted or repetitive behavior patterns. But as a spectrum disorder, that means that one person's version of autism may not look like another. So Brent, for example, may struggle with certain social situations, but he is able to engage with people and attend church with a group, go to work and engage with me for this interview. Further along the spectrum of autism, though, we might see individuals who can't speak at all or have to leave a noisy room. I bring this up because as parents of children with autism know, understanding your own child and their needs is important. That goes for all of us. But it's important to recognize that while we can learn from Brent, his experience is just one experience.

Brent Jackson (04:06):

My mom was always cooking casseroles and big meals, of course. My dad was more kind of the grill master at the time growing up. I didn't care so much about who did what. As I started learning more growing up, I was able to tell that something my mom made was lacking or missing salt or some kind of herb. Add that to it or ask me, "Taste this and tell me what's in there." And I'd be able to tell what was in a sauce or a dip. And they pretty much told me I had a very educated palate growing up as a kid. And so to this day, I can taste things and tell what the spice is, and that brings up a lot of good memories as a kid growing up. And that's really what got me into food mostly. And then when I was in high school, I had to do an internship and I ended up going to our parents' country club in the kitchen there with the head chef.

(05:00)
I did, like, 20 hours or something like that. And so I got to learn a lot of things that happened behind the scenes when it came to cooking and preparing and the prep time. And then after graduating from high school, I worked full-time for two years; but I knew as hard as school was for me in general, I didn't want to be that one person that didn't go to college and get some kind of degree. So then I ended up going to culinary school. There were options for me to have extra help if I needed it, but I didn't want to be that person being singled out or pointed fingers at because I'm getting extra help on things. So this was the first time I didn't have any extra help. I actually did this myself. It was a big deal.

Stephanie (05:45):
Brent earned his associate's degree in culinary arts, but ultimately he decided the field wasn't for him professionally.

Brent Jackson (05:54):

Now I cook for fun. I can't do it for a career. The hours and things that are said or having something thrown in your direction, whatever, that's not my cup of tea.

Stephanie (06:06):
For some individuals with autism, the repetitive nature of common kitchen tasks like slicing, dicing and chopping or rolling out dough, for example, make the kitchen an appealing place. But of course, for a lot of people, the frenetic pace of a professional kitchen would be quite daunting.

Brent Jackson (06:25):

It's very stressful. I don't do well with that kind of stress. So that's why I do it for fun. I write all my own recipes. I create stuff on the spot from time to time.

Stephanie (06:35):
So what is it for you that's fun or comforting about being in the kitchen?

Brent Jackson (06:41):
I guess it's being able to be creative. After a long day, or if I'm in a funk or whatever else, being in the kitchen is very relaxing. I don't have people bothering me. I'm doing my own thing, my own time. You either make it fun or you just don't want to do it at all. That's what it is for me. It's always been kind of being able to experiment with different ingredients or I have something at a restaurant. I'm like, "I'm going to try and make my own version of this." And I just doctor it up and do a much healthier, untraditional version of what I had. Stuff that's never been done before, that's the kind of food I like to make. Stuff that's never been done or thought of. Just very untraditional when it comes to new ideas and new recipes.

Stephanie (07:28):
As an adult in Ohio, Brent lived at home and worked for Kroger. In time, he started seeing a therapist who specialized in autism.

Brent Jackson (07:40):
I worked with her for about a year and a half, learning about how my brain functions compared to other people, and that taught me a lot.

Stephanie (07:49):
In 2017, on a nudge from his family, Brent interviewed for a spot with the First Place Transition Academy, a two-year program in Phoenix for adults with autism. The program, which has clinical services provided by the Phoenix-based Southwest Autism Research and Resource Center, is designed to help participants develop life and career readiness skills and become more independent. Brent had no idea such a program even existed. He was immediately accepted into the program and in July 2018, his family helped him move to Phoenix. He was 33.

Brent Jackson (08:31):

It was to help me become more independent and not rely so much on family, especially financially or just somewhere to live. That was the end game, the main goal. I lived at home with my family most of my life. I was always very independent, kind of a loner, had a small group of friends; but living out here has helped me grow so much, so much more than when I was just living at home.

Stephanie (09:01):
And being able to cook has been part of that independence.

Brent Jackson (09:07):

For me, it's very empowering. Food has always been how I communicate with people. I can talk about the newest restaurant, the newest cooking equipment, or just in general, my favorite kinds of food. So when people ask me what's a hobby of yours or how do you pair this and that together. For me, I guess in a way also being able to reach out to people as well. Sometimes I bring stuff for people to try at work. I'll make something brand-new, it's never been done before, and I'll have some of my coworkers try it and tell me what they think. And I guess in a way that's my ministry to people, is food. I feel very empowered to be able to just cook healthy meals, come up with new marinade and sauces that's never been done before, or a variation of something I've had.

(09:58)
Just having that freeing feeling of pulling my pan out, pulling what I have in the fridge or whatever I decide to grill. Just that feeling of, it's me, it's my time. There's no distractions. That's probably my favorite time, doing my own thing. As an adult now, I find much more joy in the cooking now than I used to.

Stephanie (10:28):
One thing that works for Brent in the kitchen, and in his experience works with kids, too, is keeping things fun.

Brent Jackson (10:37):

I try to make everything fun for me. So I will say though, it was a couple years ago, I was back visiting family on the East Coast. Parents had a beach house at the time in South Jersey, and every time I would go back, there's always a meal I made every year. We would go to the seafood market, which was also a restaurant, get the fresh shrimp, already frozen, get my basil, everything else I needed. Everybody loved it, it was a linguine and shrimp recipe I had made. Had my own touch to it, let's put it that way. And with my niece, she's like, "Can I help you cook or help you put stuff together?" I'm like, "Yeah, sure, that'd be great." At first, I was like, I don't know if I want her using a knife, even small enough. Asked her mother like, "Hey, is this okay?"

(11:23)
She's like, "Yeah." But just to make it safer, I taught her the trick of how to take the tail off instead of having to cut it off or that kind of stuff, to pop it off. I put gloves on her hands and she told me she learned a lot from that and she enjoyed it and I had a helper. But I will say that's not something I do all the time. I usually like to do everything myself. I'm not big on having help in the kitchen, and again, that's just going to be... That's just who I am. But having those pre-thought-out or maybe premeditated tasks already at hand or a checklist or the mise en place, I think that's very ideal for not just adults, whether you have autism or not, but kids, especially.

Stephanie (12:09):

For some individuals with autism, communication and connection can be challenging. Brent's advice for parents of autism, I'd argue, is helpful for us all.

Brent Jackson (12:22):
One of the other things I've learned, too, is, especially for parents or children with autism, I would say finding a common interest is so important in that area. Finding out what they like. Some kids don't talk much or they're nonverbal or they're super talkative or whatever, but finding that common interest, I think, is the first key point. That way they know how to communicate with their child. Then once you find that, then you can move on to different interests or activities. For me, I always loved watching cooking shows growing up on Food Network, whether it's Iron Chef or Emeril Lagasse. I always loved the visual cooking shows. I think also making it fun somehow. Let them get their hands dirty with dough or a pie or pastry or whatever in their own way, I think, it is really the first key point.

Stephanie (13:27):
Thank you to my guest today, Brent Jackson, for sharing your story and your insights. If you're interested in learning more about the First Place Transition Academy we discussed, you can visit firstplaceaz.org.

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Stephanie (14:25):
At different points in my career, I've had the opportunity to work on projects connected with autism spectrum disorder. I've interviewed parents, children, and researchers. I've learned about early intervention for children, about what it means for a parent to have an accurate diagnosis and how empowering it can be for older teens and adults to learn more about their own autism. What has been truly exciting over the years is seeing the understanding grow. More pediatricians are able to recognize the signs of autism. More clinicians are qualified to assess and diagnose. More resources are available to families seeking information as well as therapeutic services. And as we learned from Brent, there are even resources available today for adults with autism.

(15:34)
Brent's story also reminds us of the importance of independence and how empowering knowing how to cook can be. As parents, we want our children to grow up to be independent adults. And whether an autism diagnosis is part of our story or not, we worry about whether we've taught them enough and whether they'll be able to do everything from making their own meals, to figuring out a bus schedule, to managing their finances. So as we think about our resolutions for the new year, I hope you'll consider joining me in adding a goal for this year to cook with your kiddos more. Teach them how to have fun in the kitchen. Teach them and yourself a new technique. Learn some new recipes together, and as always, make memories together. Our Kiddos in the Kitchen family wishes you a healthy and happy new year.

(16:53)
Thanks for joining me for Kiddos in the Kitchen, I'm your host Stephanie Conner, with a reminder from my son.

Conner (17:00):

If you like my mom's podcast as much as I do, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Stephanie (17:19):

That's right, Conner. You can also view the show notes, subscribe to our newsletter, and check out all of our other content at kiddosinthekitchen.com. We're Kiddos Cook on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and I'll be back next month with another fresh episode. Until then, I encourage you to get your Kiddos in the Kitchen.